Fitness questions and answers for October 1, 2006
Got a question about fitness, training, recovery from injury or a related subject? Drop us a line at...
Form & Fitness Q & A
Got a question about fitness, training, recovery from injury or a related subject? Drop us a line at fitness@cyclingnews.com. Please include as much information about yourself as possible, including your age, sex, and type of racing or riding. Due to the volume of questions we receive, we regret that we are unable to answer them all.
Carrie Cheadle, MA (www.carriecheadle.com) is a Sports Psychology consultant who has dedicated her career to helping athletes of all ages and abilities perform to their potential. Carrie specialises in working with cyclists, in disciplines ranging from track racing to mountain biking. She holds a bachelors degree in Psychology from Sonoma State University as well as a masters degree in Sport Psychology from John F. Kennedy University.
Dave Palese (www.davepalese.com) is a USA Cycling licensed coach and masters' class road racer with 16 years' race experience. He coaches racers and riders of all abilities from his home in southern Maine, USA, where he lives with his wife Sheryl, daughter Molly, and two cats, Miranda and Mu-Mu.
Kelby Bethards, MD received a Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering from Iowa State University (1994) before obtaining an M.D. from the University of Iowa College of Medicine in 2000. Has been a racing cyclist 'on and off' for 20 years, and when time allows, he races Cat 3 and 35+. He is a team physician for two local Ft Collins, CO, teams, and currently works Family Practice in multiple settings: rural, urgent care, inpatient and the like.
Fiona Lockhart (www.trainright.com) is a USA Cycling Expert Coach, and holds certifications from USA Weightlifting (Sports Performance Coach), the National Strength and Conditioning Association (Certified Strength and Conditioning Coach), and the National Academy for Sports Nutrition (Primary Sports Nutritionist). She is the Sports Science Editor for Carmichael Training Systems, and has been working in the strength and conditioning and endurance sports fields for over 10 years; she's also a competitive mountain biker.
Eddie Monnier (www.velo-fit.com) is a USA Cycling certified Elite Coach and a Category II racer. He holds undergraduate degrees in anthropology (with departmental honors) and philosophy from Emory University and an MBA from The Wharton School of Business.
Eddie is a proponent of training with power. He coaches cyclists (track, road and mountain bike) of all abilities and with wide ranging goals (with and without power meters). He uses internet tools to coach riders from any geography.
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David Fleckenstein, MPT (www.physiopt.com) is a physical therapist practicing in Boise, ID. His clients have included World and U.S. champions, Olympic athletes and numerous professional athletes. He received his B.S. in Biology/Genetics from Penn State and his Master's degree in Physical Therapy from Emory University. He specializes in manual medicine treatment and specific retraining of spine and joint stabilization musculature. He is a former Cat I road racer and Expert mountain biker.
Since 1986 Steve Hogg (www.cyclefitcentre.com) has owned and operated Pedal Pushers, a cycle shop specialising in rider positioning and custom bicycles. In that time he has positioned riders from all cycling disciplines and of all levels of ability with every concievable cycling problem.They include World and National champions at one end of the performance spectrum to amputees and people with disabilities at the other end.
Current riders that Steve has positioned include Davitamon-Lotto's Nick Gates, Discovery's Hayden Roulston, National Road Series champion, Jessica Ridder and National and State Time Trial champion, Peter Milostic.
Pamela Hinton has a bachelor's degree in Molecular Biology and a doctoral degree in Nutritional Sciences, both from the University of Wisconsin-Madison. She did postdoctoral training at Cornell University and is now an assistant professor of Nutritional Sciences at the University of Missouri-Columbia where she studies the effects of iron deficiency on adaptations to endurance training and the consequences of exercise-associated changes in menstrual function on bone health.
Pam was an All-American in track while at the UW. She started cycling competitively in 2003 and is the defending Missouri State Road Champion. Pam writes a nutrition column for Giana Roberge's Team Speed Queen Newsletter.
Dario Fredrick (www.wholeathlete.com) is an exercise physiologist and head coach for Whole Athlete™. He is a former category 1 & semi-pro MTB racer. Dario holds a masters degree in exercise science and a bachelors in sport psychology.
Scott Saifer (www.wenzelcoaching.com) has a Masters Degree in exercise physiology and sports psychology and has personally coached over 300 athletes of all levels in his 10 years of coaching with Wenzel Coaching.
Kendra Wenzel (www.wenzelcoaching.com) is a head coach with Wenzel Coaching with 17 years of racing and coaching experience and is coauthor of the book Bike Racing 101.
Steve Owens (www.coloradopremiertraining.com) is a USA Cycling certified coach, exercise physiologist and owner of Colorado Premier Training. Steve has worked with both the United States Olympic Committee and Guatemalan Olympic Committee as an Exercise Physiologist. He holds a B.S. in Exercise & Sports Science and currently works with multiple national champions, professionals and World Cup level cyclists.
Through his highly customized online training format, Steve and his handpicked team of coaches at Colorado Premier Training work with cyclists and multisport athletes around the world.
Brett Aitken (www.cycle2max.com) is a Sydney Olympic gold medalist. Born in Adelaide, Australia in 1971, Brett got into cycling through the cult sport of cycle speedway before crossing over into road and track racing. Since winning Olympic gold in the Madison with Scott McGrory, Brett has been working on his coaching business and his www.cycle2max.com website.
Richard Stern (www.cyclecoach.com) is Head Coach of Richard Stern Training, a Level 3 Coach with the Association of British Cycling Coaches, a Sports Scientist, and a writer. He has been professionally coaching cyclists and triathletes since 1998 at all levels from professional to recreational. He is a leading expert in coaching with power output and all power meters. Richard has been a competitive cyclist for 20 years
Andy Bloomer (www.cyclecoach.com) is an Associate Coach and sport scientist with Richard Stern Training. He is a member of the Association of British Cycling Coaches (ABCC) and a member of the British Association of Sport and Exercise Sciences (BASES). In his role as Exercise Physiologist at Staffordshire University Sports Performance Centre, he has conducted physiological testing and offered training and coaching advice to athletes from all sports for the past 4 years. Andy has been a competitive cyclist for many years.
Michael Smartt (www.cyclecoach.com) is an Associate Coach with Richard Stern Training. He holds a Masters degree in exercise physiology and is USA Cycling Expert Coach. Michael has been a competitive cyclist for over 10 years and has experience coaching road and off-road cyclists, triathletes and Paralympians.
Kim Morrow (www.elitefitcoach.com) has competed as a Professional Cyclist and Triathlete, is a certified USA Cycling Elite Coach, a 4-time U.S. Masters National Road Race Champion, and a Fitness Professional.
Her coaching group, eliteFITcoach, is based out of the Southeastern United States, although they coach athletes across North America. Kim also owns MyEnduranceCoach.com, a resource for cyclists, multisport athletes & endurance coaches around the globe, specializing in helping cycling and multisport athletes find a coach.
Cramps and bike geometry
Small bike
Recumbent for lower-back pain?
Saddle fore/aft position
Prostate
Leg length discrepancy and asymmetry
Knee and hip questions
Susanne Ljungskog's cleat position
More advice on cramps after time off
Cramps and bike geometry
I am 32 years old, male, and have been road cycling more or less on and off since 2002. I weigh about 80kg (176 pounds) and I'm roughly 5'10" tall. I have always ridden an old, hand-me-down Trek 1200 (size 56 frame), but recently purchased a brand new Trek 1500 road bike (size 54 frame).
The problem is almost each time I have gone out on a ride on the new bike (which seems to be the right size as per the bike shop that sold it to me) my quad muscles cramp (especially when I get out of the saddle to climb hills) and my hips get a little bit sore as well as my hamstrings. I'm worried because I really like the bike but I can't be getting cramps every time I ride. I have never had any problems like this with the old bike.
So, can you recommend anything? Do you have any ideas about what is causing this and what can be done about it?
Travis Suggs
Scott Saifer replies:
Small bike
I have some questions about fit. I normally ride a Specialized Tarmac Pro, size 54, with a top tube of 548mm. I got the bike when I was still pretty green and had unresolved tension in my back - long rides or races gave me hard back pain by the end of the ride. I knocked the stem down to 100mm from 120mm, but I'm loathing shortening it much more as our coach told us it negatively affects steering. I just did a couple of rides on a friend's Orbea Onix, size 51, with a top tube of 535mm, and a much smaller stem, in the neighborhood of 80mm. It felt great - despite riding 130 miles and 50 miles, my back felt great. I could reach the drops a lot better and it just felt nicer. I am now very tempted to get a smaller frame, as it is so comfortable.
I wanted to ask if you can have a frame that's too small, and what the problems will be. My feet hit the front wheel if it's turned very far, but that seems to be only a low speed issue. I will probably end up with a lower position; this may actually be nice for criteriums and flat road races, but will it decrement my climbing (already not one of my strong suits-I can't afford to hurt it more)? Is there something I'm overlooking entirely?
For reference, I'm 5'10", weigh 165lbs, with a 30in inseam. I've so far done well in power riding, time trialing, and sprinting.
Joakim Kristoffer Vinberg
Scott Saifer replies:
Recumbent for lower-back pain?
I realise recumbent bikes are not discussed a lot on this site, but any help here would be greatly appreciated.
I've been road riding for four years until this past March when I hurt my lower back moving furniture. A physio diagnosed it as a bulged disc (very low in my back - I don't remember the medical description of the location). I went through six treatment sessions (traction, electrodes, and ultrasound) and I iced it regularly. I do all the exercises prescribed and I have been able to resume all my daily activities - except biking. My back will just not accept the bent-over riding position. I've tried a high-rise stem, a shorter stem and I've tried moving the saddle lower, but nothing helps. I've even borrowed a friend's comfort/pathway bike on which I bend over only slightly, but my back still aches for a few days if
I try to go longer then 30 minutes. I'm 33 years old and I ride for fitness and commuting. I was previously riding about 4000km a year. I would like to get back to being able to ride for up to one hour or so without regretting it the next day.
I am wondering if a recumbent might be the answer. Do any of you have experience with a situation like mine?
J-P,
Calgary, AB
Steve Hogg replies:
Saddle fore/aft position
I am 34 year old male mountain biker who tries to be as competitive as possible on the limited training time available to me. I have really found your site extremely insightful and Steve's recommendations have really solved a lot of problems for me. I need a bit more help, though:
I'm about 1.77m tall and weigh 76kg. I wear a size UK10 shoe and ride an Orbea Alma hardtail with a 73 degree seat-tube angle and with 175mm crank arms. Before reading Steve's recommendations the only way I could find the most powerful position was to move my saddle all the way forward on a zero off-set seat post. Needless to say, the biggest trade off was always a very chafed groin area. This steep position was probably because my cleats were way to far forward. It did however help me to stay balanced on steep climbs and climb at a high cadence of 100-120 rpm which I found suited me best on long steep climbs.
Because of constant tenderness of the skin in my groin area, I tried Steve's recommendations and the difference was amazing. My cleats are now further back, together with my Gobi seat which is now moved back about 1cm from its maximum on a set-back EC 70 Easton seatpost. I now sit very comfortably and despite the set-back, I still feel balanced on steep climbs although I had to shorten my stem.
My problem is now that I battle with my cadence. Initially when I changed my set up according to your recommendations, I set my cleats and seat about 3mm forward from now. It really felt good and powerful when climbing seated with no cadence problems, but felt less powerful on the flats and when pedaling whilst standing. I then moved only the cleats 3mm back which felt great when turning the pedals out of the saddle but less so when seated on both hills and flats. It felt like I could not get the power behind the pedal on the down-stroke and that my legs were moving up and down instead of circles. High cadence was also a problem.
I then moved my seat also 3mm further back. Now it felt great and powerful whilst standing and sitting on the flats but much less so on the climbs. Fast cadence is difficult and it feels like my hamstrings are taking too much strain. Raising the saddle worsened my reach and lowering it made my hamstrings feel cramped, and worsened the up-stroke. I can move my cleats 3mm forward again but do not want to loose that nice, solid feeling when riding out of the saddle. Do I perhaps need shorter crank arms? All of the above is when cycling at high-intensity levels. I prefer high cadences for climbing and anything from 60 -110 rpm for flats and rolling roads.
Rayno Peo
Port Elizabeth, South Africa.
Steve Hogg replies:
Prostate
I would like to have your opinion on how you would position someone on their bike who is a serious cyclist and competes in triathlons but with a history of prostate problems.
Steve Hogg replies:
Leg length discrepancy and asymmetry
I'm a 35 year old former racer getting back into riding for about a year after around eight years of little exercise. I've made great improvement this year but struggle with minor injuries that I believe are related to fit. I generally ride 100-150 miles a week and stretch fairly regularly but do not consider myself very flexible. I need to drop about 30 lbs.
I've known that I've had a functional LLD since high school. I was using extra insoles for soccer and cross country before I'd ever heard of orthotics. I've always been very right footed (it's hard to kick with your long leg while standing on your short one without digging a hole). I can jump off my left foot much better than the right. I've always felt like my left and right hip/legs work differently. I've often wondered if it started with a dislocated right hip when swimming breast stroke at around 10 years old. I'm pretty sure I have an actual LLD but I suspect my pelvis is the source of most of the functional LLD and other problems.
I currently wear orthotics in my 'other' shoes and in getting them had my LLD confirmed by a sports therapist. I've been messing with homemade spacers (fridge magnets work well) and LeWedges for years with mixed results. Usually I can fix one problem but end up causing another. I've gone through periods of asymmetrical leg soreness and feelings of having a weak leg to having asymmetrical back pain. I've had occasional hand and foot numbness but raising my stem and hoods and the LeWedges seem to have largely corrected these problems.
Fun facts: Right foot seems larger by 2-3mm between heel and ball. Right leg shorter by 8-11mm (difference in lower leg). More developed right calf. Typically have right side lower back pain on long ride or ride with lots of climbing. Right side gluteal pain early in rides fades (as other things start to hurt more?) Knees seem even versus the top tube. Left heel seems to come closer to crank. Dropping right hip when pedaling. No apparent varus difference (measured at home, wife thinks I'm nuts). More saddle soreness on right side, frequent numbness of the naughty bits. Looking at my old saddle, it is bent down on the right a little. ITB soreness, mostly on left, less so since pedal spacers added 3 months ago. Current adjustments: ~5mm right shim (6 wedges 4in/2out) (Shimano, Look style) ~2mm left shim (1 wedge, thick side in); pedal spacers: 3mm each side.
From reading your other articles, it sounds like I could benefit from offsetting my saddle (my current post will allow about 4mm) and/or having it point off center. If I need more than the 4mm I'll get a K-force. I've always tried to force myself to be more symmetrical with shims and cleat position but never tried any asymmetrical saddle tricks. I videoed myself and saw that my right hip was dropping lower. I moved the saddle left 4mm and it reduced it considerably. When I looked at my legs vs. the top tube and seat post it seemed square. I feel pretty good on the saddle but 30 min on the trainer isn't going to be the test. If I offset 4mm to the left, I'll need to increase shim on the right, right? What about pointing the saddle? OK, I couldn't wait! I tried my saddle 4mm to the left and the nose pointed slightly to the left. Only rode 20 minutes (in the rain and dark) but my legs felt pretty 'even'. It feels like the pointing of the saddle achieved more than the offset but it's hard to say. It still looks even between legs and top tube. I was moving around on the saddle somewhat, trying to find the spot but I'll have to give that a week or so before deciding anything. I still feel more saddle pressure on the right sit bone but no numbness! The extra right saddle pressure may be a result of a pronounced callous courtesy of a saddle sore from two weeks ago. Please let me know where you would start (or continue). I'd love to be symmetrically sore just once! Even saddle sore!
Bill,
Atlanta GA
Steve Hogg replies:
- Establish that you are twisting the right side of the pelvis forward. To do this you will need an observer standing on a chair above and behind you while you pedal at reasonable load on a trainer with your shirt off and stripped to the waist.
- If you are twisting forward to the right, then add more shims to the right shoe (and make sure that you move the right cleat back an extra mm relative to foot in shoe for every 5mm of shim you add) and try twisting the seat nose slightly to the left. The idea, if you cope with it, is to square up the pelvis more and allow you to bear your weight more evenly.
The advice above is contingent upon you having a measurable LLD. If you find after an x ray or scan that this is not the case, then you need to do what ever it takes to achieve more functional symmetry. Shims are often needed to work around functional LLDs too, but better still is to sort yourself out so that you don't have a functional LLD.
Knee and hip questions
I'm a 36 year old Cat 4 road racer and I've been riding a bike for about two years. I have a left knee problem that started long ago in my teens while playing basketball. When I went to the doctor back then it was diagnosed as chrondomalacia. I've always been active, but I got really active again when I started riding. Initially the bike was helpful, but as I've built up miles and hours it tends to hurt regularly again. My right hip has also been sore, and it seems like the pain is at the rear of the ball of my hip. In addition, I've recently noticed a blue spot above my kneecap when I'm pedaling, especially when I'm pedaling hard. It appears to be a pool of blood or blood vessels. My questions are: 1. Is this 'blue spot' normal? 2. I'm assuming the knee and hip pain are related to my positioning on the bike. How do I close in on fixing the positioning problems? 3. Is there any proof that glucosamine and chondroitin work for issues such as mine?
Matthew Cain
Steve Hogg replies:
Matthew Cain responded:
Hi Steve, and thanks for getting back to me. I really appreciate all that you do. What shoe brand and size do you use? Specialized w/carbon soles, size 45. They're two years old, and I think they're called something like 'Pro Comp'. What pedal system do you use? Look Keo Carbon pedals. What brand, model and size of bike do you ride? Cervelo Carbon Soloist, size 56. Can you be more specific about where the knee pain is and under what circumstances it comes on? The pain seems to be underneath the upper area of my left knee cap. It is usually the worst when I first begin to ride until I get warmed up, and also when I'm climbing or pushing a large gear. Also, there are times on and off the bike when, if I turn or move in the wrong way, something seems to happen and my knee aches for a day or two. My right hip aches generally, however there is a main area of pain at the rear of the ball of the joint. Neither the knee nor hip have an acute or sharp pain, they're more achy and stiff than sharp.
If you set your bike up on an indoor and pedal under load with your shirt off, do you drop one hip? I couldn't do this as I'm away from home this week, but I'm going to assume that I drop my left hip, as there are many times that I finish riding when I have a crease from my cycling shorts on the right side of my butt. Does this make sense? My wife says that in fact I really don't have much of a hip drop, but the right side seems to hang over just a little bit. Which knee (if any) sits closer to the top tube than the other? My right knee is definitely closer to the top tube. If you look back between your legs while pedalling, on which side (if any) is the gap between inner thigh and seat post greater? The gap is greater on the left side. My right thigh is closer. If you need to wait until I'm home over the weekend and I can give you definite answers on the hip drop and seat post/inner thigh situation, just let me know and I'll resend the e-mail on Sunday. I'm not sure which pieces of the puzzle are the most important. In any event, I'm thrilled with any help you can offer. Thanks again. You're spectacular.
Steve Hogg replies:
Matthew Cain responded:
I'll stick with spectacular myself. Thanks for the very helpful info. Two more questions arise for me; 1. What exactly is forefoot varus? 2. My bike has only one seatpost position available - aero seat tube and post. I suppose there is no way to simulate the lateral offset?
Steve Hogg replies:
Susanne Ljungskog's cleat position
Steve, thanks for your response to this question.
I've tested this 'theory' in so far that I've moved my cleats as far back as they can go on my Specialized body geometry MTB shoes (ball of foot around 2.5cm in front of pedal axle). I've tested it on one ride so far and the comfort levels are unbelievable. I found it was a lot easier to use a high cadence 100+. I normally ride with a cadence between 95-110 rpm. I found that I didn't fatigue as quickly and I was surprised about my out of the saddle efforts where I could apply a lot more power and had no problem with the high cadence out of the saddle. I'll let you know in a month how things are going. One thing I did feel during the ride that I wanted to change is that I wanted my foot to be a bit further forward on the pedal, but the cleat holes in the shoe won't allow that. I'll test my road bike next weekend which should be interesting as I'm more sensitive to my road bike set up.
Paul Nielsen-Mazewski
Steve Hogg replies:
Paul Nielsen-Mazewski responded:
That's fantastic news; I look forward to the info from Gotz. I've also received an email yesterday evening from Klas Johansson (Susanne Ljungskog's partner) saying that they will also send me their data from their tests. Naturally I'll forward these on to you when I receive them. I've responed to Klas and Susanne providing a link to the Cyclingnews.com fitness Q&A page. One question that has been popping up in my brain over the last couple of days, with the riders that you used the forward shoe position for (backward cleat position), why did they change back to their 'normal' cleat position?
Steve Hogg replies:
More advice on cramps after time off
I recently saw this question from Viktor in Sweden about getting cramps after time off the bike. I happen to have the same symptoms, and I am not entirely comfortable with the reply of Steve Hogg. In particular, I wonder how the cause could be a high saddle and/or not enough foot over pedal when I only experience the symptoms when I take a break after longer periods of regular training. In certain cases, I even experience the pains while walking. I have been experiencing muscle pains that no one else in my riding group seems to have had before.
I am a 46 year-old male road rider and I have been riding for over 10 years, the last 4 years of which have been pretty competitive. Over the last 4 months, I've followed a very structured training program based on Joe Friel's cycling training bible. It peaked with a 4-day 500km stage race, with lots of climbing over the last two stages. I did very well in the prep races and the stage race, surpassing the goals I had set.
After the stage race, I started to taper off my riding frequency and intensity, and about a month after the stage race stopped riding completely for about a week due to work commitments. About 4 days into the week when I did not ride, I started to experience severe muscle pains in my thighs when I would walk even relatively short distance. Now that I am trying to resume riding, I get the same pains. Even with the lowest intensity rides, my thighs hurt so much that I can't pedal after just 10 minutes. What is causing this problem, and how can I prevent and treat it?
Robin Valdes
Steve Hogg replies:
David Fleckenstein adds:
I have had two riders in last five years that have reported odd cramping (only both of them experienced it in their quadriceps) and did not respond to any mechanical or nutritional changes. They were subsequently diagnosed by two excellent rheumatologists (who also ride) with true muscular myopathies. I would highly recommend having this further examined - not all musculoskeletal pain is truly mechanical and there is an odd pattern present in both of these cases.