Fitness questions and answers for May 22, 2007

Torque analysis: (Image credit: Steve Hogg)

Form & Fitness Q & A

Carrie Cheadle, MA (www.carriecheadle.com) is a Sports Psychology consultant who has dedicated her career to helping athletes of all ages and abilities perform to their potential. Carrie specialises in working with cyclists, in disciplines ranging from track racing to mountain biking. She holds a bachelors degree in Psychology from Sonoma State University as well as a masters degree in Sport Psychology from John F. Kennedy University.

Kelby Bethards, MD received a Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering from Iowa State University (1994) before obtaining an M.D. from the University of Iowa College of Medicine in 2000. Has been a racing cyclist 'on and off' for 20 years, and when time allows, he races Cat 3 and 35+. He is a team physician for two local Ft Collins, CO, teams, and currently works Family Practice in multiple settings: rural, urgent care, inpatient and the like.

Fiona Lockhart (www.trainright.com) is a USA Cycling Expert Coach, and holds certifications from USA Weightlifting (Sports Performance Coach), the National Strength and Conditioning Association (Certified Strength and Conditioning Coach), and the National Academy for Sports Nutrition (Primary Sports Nutritionist). She is the Sports Science Editor for Carmichael Training Systems, and has been working in the strength and conditioning and endurance sports fields for over 10 years; she's also a competitive mountain biker.

David Fleckenstein, MPT (www.physiopt.com) is a physical therapist practicing in Boise, ID. His clients have included World and U.S. champions, Olympic athletes and numerous professional athletes. He received his B.S. in Biology/Genetics from Penn State and his Master's degree in Physical Therapy from Emory University. He specializes in manual medicine treatment and specific retraining of spine and joint stabilization musculature. He is a former Cat I road racer and Expert mountain biker.

Since 1986 Steve Hogg (www.cyclefitcentre.com) has owned and operated Pedal Pushers, a cycle shop specialising in rider positioning and custom bicycles. In that time he has positioned riders from all cycling disciplines and of all levels of ability with every concievable cycling problem.They include World and National champions at one end of the performance spectrum to amputees and people with disabilities at the other end.

Pamela Hinton has a bachelor's degree in Molecular Biology and a doctoral degree in Nutritional Sciences, both from the University of Wisconsin-Madison. She did postdoctoral training at Cornell University and is now an assistant professor of Nutritional Sciences at the University of Missouri-Columbia where she studies the effects of iron deficiency on adaptations to endurance training and the consequences of exercise-associated changes in menstrual function on bone health.

Steve Owens (www.coloradopremiertraining.com) is a USA Cycling certified coach, exercise physiologist and owner of Colorado Premier Training. Steve has worked with both the United States Olympic Committee and Guatemalan Olympic Committee as an Exercise Physiologist. He holds a B.S. in Exercise & Sports Science and currently works with multiple national champions, professionals and World Cup level cyclists.

Richard Stern (www.cyclecoach.com) is Head Coach of Richard Stern Training, a Level 3 Coach with the Association of British Cycling Coaches, a Sports Scientist, and a writer. He has been professionally coaching cyclists and triathletes since 1998 at all levels from professional to recreational. He is a leading expert in coaching with power output and all power meters. Richard has been a competitive cyclist for 20 years

Andy Bloomer (www.cyclecoach.com) is an Associate Coach and sport scientist with Richard Stern Training. He is a member of the Association of British Cycling Coaches (ABCC) and a member of the British Association of Sport and Exercise Sciences (BASES). In his role as Exercise Physiologist at Staffordshire University Sports Performance Centre, he has conducted physiological testing and offered training and coaching advice to athletes from all sports for the past 4 years. Andy has been a competitive cyclist for many years.

I have wasted most of my riding life with a bad foot over pedal position. My question for you is I see your mention of torque data, the stick experiment etc and it makes sense. So did the Italian shoemaker that showed me where to put a cleat. What I don't see is measured results on the bike. Riding a bike is a complicated trade to do work. If I were to test a change like this I would ride up my local hill over a period of months. Some days will be fast, some slow but overall when you plot the results you will see your cluster of results shift away from the old ones.

I have never seen attachments posted on Cyclingnews but I have attached a graph that might get through. They are of an elite rider who has gone to midfoot cleat position. Firstly, the graph is reversed. What is on the left is the right legs' curve and what is on the right is the left legs' curve. The red line is the rider with a cleat position that I have had him in for at least 10 years. The green line is midfoot cleat position after two weeks of riding with that cleat position. Both curves were taken at the same wattage, gear, speed and cadence after a thorough warm up.

I am writing in reference to the issue of rearward cleat positioning. My question is; if it is correct that the cleat should be in the midfoot position because it enables the forces put on the pedal to be generated more by the quads than the calves why is it that for riders such as I, who have the cleat over the pedal axle or just behind, when exercising it is the quads that experience failure and never the calves? One would think that if pedalling forces were exposing weaker muscles to load they would fail before the stronger ones.

The body has evolved over time to exert leg force repeatedly for substantial durations through walking and running where the force is, I presume, exerted through the ball of the foot onto the ground. I presume that this real-world interpretation of where the foot should be is an explanation for the majority of advice to be for ball over axle position. I know that cycling is not walking or running but I believe that there is relevance to this comparison.

As far as the empirical evidence is concerned that given by Mr Hogg is hard to dispute, although I have read none of it that is not on the Cyclingnews website given by Mr Hogg. I would like to raise one issue though and that is the issue of experimenter effects. I don't know if any of the studies involving torque and wattage are double blind, or whatever the term is for when the experimenter's expectations are eliminated from the participants' performance and statistical interpretation, but in situations such as these they are extremely relevant to the conclusions being drawn.

Over the last 3 years, I've become more keyed in on with my bike position and have noticed that my right leg has generally lacked the same perceived power output as my left leg. It feels like from the 7-12 o'clock position, the leg is there "just for the ride" and not contributing much if any to pushing the bike along. In addition my right foot seems to bare more weight on the outside of my foot through most portions of the down stroke (12-6 o'clock) which makes the pedal stroke feel unnatural: left foot and stroke feels fine.

It would be helpful to know how much of the 12mm functional difference is due to a shorter femur and how much is due to a shorter tibia. The reason this is important is we correct a greater portion of the difference attributed to tibia difference (about half) than when attributed to femur differences (about 25-33%) because of the difference in angle relative to the pedal stroke. Notice the correction is never, in my experience, 100%. In you situation, your stack would be at most about 6 mm (presuming the difference was all due to a shorter tibia) and at least about 3-4 mm (if all femur related).

1. A number of small joints missing from my ankles.
2. (as a result of the above) quite short feet relative to my 5 ft 9 height (but wide feet too so I wear a size 41 shoes).
3. Poor ankle flexibility.
4. Weak Achilles tendons.
5. Small and weak calf muscles.
6. My left foot is a size shorter than the other (but I use a matching pair as shops won't split sizes). I have the ball of each foot over the centre of each pedal axle - so my cleats are about 5mm further back on my left shoe.

2. You have been asked the next question previously but I haven't fully grasped the answer yet. I use the latest Time RSX pedals with the latest Carnac shoes. I have three bikes all with new pedals and two pairs of new shoes. I have a brand new Trek Madone 6.5 SSL with not a lot of seat post height showing as it is. Even if I my cleats/shoes would allow it, to lower my seat by 2-3cm (as might be required for a full mid-shoe cleat position) would look terrible (like a kid with a bike too big for him waiting to grown into it). You will appreciate that I (and others) will take some persuasion/time to abandon all of these to attain a full mid-foot cleat position. I currently use the traditional ball of foot directly over pedal axle position. I have a maximum of 5 mm that I could slide the cleats further back on one shoe and 1 cm on the other. This would give me a ball of foot 5 mm in front of centre of pedal axle position (assuming I tried to keep each ball of foot an even amount forward from the pedal axle).

You have stated that this type of position is not the same as (ie: not a substitute for) the mid-foot position (and clearly this is so) but my question is more: is getting the cleats back as far as one can (within the limits of the shoes and cleats one has) at least better than persisting with a traditional ball of foot over pedal axle approach - even if it is not the same as (or a substitute for) the mid-foot position you are now recommending? If ball of foot over pedal axle (traditional position) works ok, and until recently you have recommended a semi-forward position and now a very forward (mid-foot) position, presumably it follows that anything between the traditional position and the full mid-foot cleat position is still better than the traditional position? Some people (whether due to current shoes, bikes or traditionalism) may find it easier to "slide" their cleats slowly back to the mid-foot position (ie: as their shoes wear out or they change their bikes) than to go from one extreme to the other.

I know that ball of foot 5mm forward of pedal axle (as I could achieve with my current shoes) falls way short of even your previous theory of "modified forefoot cleat" positioning (I think you said you were previously 15-20mm in front). But presumably this is just a question of degree and you would take the view that there is a slight improvement for each millimetre the ball of your foot goes forward of the centre of the pedal axle (until the full TMT position is reached)? Or would you say that if I can only go back 5mm not to bother changing my position at all?

This is a great question. You're already moving in the right direction by getting as much information as possible. Talk to your doc and coach about how much training is OK to do. Any stress you are putting on your system is going to have an impact on your ability to recover from injury. The last thing you want to do is prolong your healing time by jumping back in too soon. Find out what you can do on the bike and what kind of cross training you can do that will help maintain some level of fitness, but not take away from your recovery. By figuring out all of the things you CAN do - you will feel like you have some control over your fitness and your recovery.